The Tridentine Mass
Good friend Kenneth Fisher reports that he hears the Holy Father's motu proprio of universal permission for the Tridentine Latin Mass, if it happens, will say no bishop may overrule it.
Let's hope this is so, and let's hope the indult does happen.
The illustration above is from the site of the Latin Mass Association (click on this post's title). For more information about the Tridentine Mass, you can visit: http://www.unavoce.org/
One practical problem with implementing the motu proprio would be how to train altar boys, and girl altar boys, in the new form and in the Latin. Do you have any ideas on how to achieve those goals. or do you know anyone who is already working on solutions?
"Venite, adoremus...venite ad Bethlehem."
posted by Quintero at 10:57 PM
18 Comments:
Tridentine vs Novus Ordo is a distraction and a waste of time. We can't get bishops to follow the most basic tenants of the faith and you're worried about whether or not the mass is celebrated in Latin? What planet do you people come from? Is there any oxygen there?
This is a smoke screen - a giant flanking movement designed to get the people of God looking in the wrong direction! Mahoney and his ilk pay no more attention to anything out of Rome than most people pay to the National Enquirer. To see just how serious this motu proprio is in the big scheme of things, substitute the words, "Debbie Gibson Pregnant with Elvis' Two-Headed Love Child" for motu proprio. Now you're thinking about the subject with same level of attention and dedication of the vast, vast majority of bishops.
To the hierarchy the church was simply a choice of vocation and, for most, the only other option was welfare.
Wake up, Catholics!
Lex orandi, lex credendi, I say.
Many indult Tridentine communities today are run largely by lay leaders who teach priests and altar servers how to celebrate and serve Mass, respectively. Likewise, choirs often teach themselves how to sing the Propers.
Existing indult communities can serve as a resource for new "Motu Proprio" communities to call upon for training.
"Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described" by Adrian Fortescue is back in print and is the best detailed explanation of how to celebrate (and serve) the traditional Mass.
An even bigger and more important challenge will be that of training or re-training priests to offer the Mass of the ages.
Not every diocese is as bad off as Los Angeles. There are two vibrant Latin Mass communities in the Fresno diocese and the Fresno bishop is not allowing Fraternity priest to celebrate Mass in Fresno. May with an expanded indult the bishops will realize they were wrong and give in to the faithful. The Indult Mass in Bakersfield usually hs well over 300 attendding. Although the Fresno bishop does not say the old Mass he does at least permit it in the diocese where there si a desire for ot, and for that I am thankfull
Correction....The Bishop of Fresno allows the Latin Mass and is inviting Franterity priest to say the Mass in Fresno
Dear Anonymous 3:50 a.m.,
Thanks for writing, but if you check the texts of the Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass you will see how incredibly many of the truly Catholic elements, such as about repentance and salvation, have been stolen from us.
The Tridentine Mass in English (which it was, in effect, anyway, to anyone who could read a missal with the Latin and English texts side by side) would be better than the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin.
You are right that many bishops do not pay attention to Rome. Le's be grateful for the ones who do, and let's pray for the fence-straddlers to get on board.
Dear AlexB,
Thanks very much for the excellent points. Let's hope what you say comes to pass everywhere.
Dear Charles A.,
Thank you very much for mentioning that excellent resource! We should all buy a copy.
Dear Anonymous 4:25 p.m.,
You are right, and let's hope that, as AlexB saysa, the already existing indult communities and clergy can lead the way.
Dear Anonymous 6:19/6:21 p.m.,
Thanks for the good news from Fresno, and let's hope more bishops will do the right thing.
Often a very liberal Bishop, such as the Bishop of Fresno, will allow one
or two Tridentine Masses as a smoke screen for their liberality in everything else. Don't give these chameleons too much credit.
Pray for them, but don't give them too much credit!
Even Mahony allows at least one Tridentine Mass in an out of the way parish somewhere!
Kenneth M. Fisher
If there are altar girls, it is not a Tridentine Mass. Communion in the hand is not a possibility either. There are many resources. Just check around the internet.
Mr. Fisher is correct regarding the bishop of Fresno. The Latin Mass communities were in place when the Mahoney brigade ran Bishop Madera out of Fresno. The Fresno bishop allows the mass but does not allow it to be advertised.As in many areas there are very affluent and prominant people who attend the indult so of course as long as they stay in the clsoet and keep quiet and keep giving money, they will give you a mass or two.
Anonymous said...
If there are altar girls, it is not a Tridentine Mass.
Right you are and even now it is up to individual priest as to whether they will use female altar servers at the N.O. Not even a bishop can force a priest to use girls. Ain't God good?
I would also like to add that veils will be mandatory at the Tridentine Mass. :0) Also modest clothing!
Kenneth M. Fisher and Central Valley Catholic, are right on
the facts. The present Bishop
of the Diocese of Fresno,is
suspicious of Traditional Catholics. It is no secret. He
has his liberal priests hunting us
down. He has made attempts to
supress our masses. He has made it
clear by his actions, that Good
Priests, by Catholic standards are
not to be tolerated. Several Good
priests have been ousted, or forced
to just give up, on this diocese.
Our Bishop needs to definitly,
attend some kind of reform school.
Along with his liberal priest cronies. They need to be reminded
that the 60's and 70' are bygone
days. And that they must accept
The Good Changes, comming from Rome. We conservatives were, not too long ago accused of not accepting changes. Who is refusing
to accept changes now?.
If, when and untill the Patriarch of the West the Holy Father orders clerics like Tod Brown, Roger Mahoney. Daneel in belgium,Kaspar in Germany & Lustiger & Ricard in france to Rome and reads these revisionist clerics (with a mid- 1960's mindset) the riot act "nothings going to happen in the revisionist liberal section of the Latin rite Catholic Church.Also bare in mind the 1600 year old Tridentine Liturgy needs NO permission to be said by any priest anywhere in the World it is protected by the Papal Bull "Quo Primum" for eternity.Question--At the 2007 March for Life in Washington DC many Prelates were on the speakers platform and in the march, but conspicuosly absent were most of the left-wing liberal clerics like Mahoney & Brown. Question, why are pro-abortion public figures like Kennedy, Palosi, Kerry and others permitted to remain in communion in the Catholic church while they promote pro abortion in the U.S. Not to mention the multitude of members of Parliament in Canada (who are Catholic and also rabid abortionists. These decievers are not in Communion with the teachings of the Catholic Church and should be exposed as such. Orthodox (Tridentine) liturgy and Orthodoxy in general is growing rapidly in the Roman Catholic Church and the average age of the Tridentine Catholic today is 24, what does that tell the aging liberal prelates and do your own thing 60's catholics. Shalom Pacem Pax
Postscript
No Folks "altergirls" are not permitted in the Tridentine liturgy nor is communion in the hand and standing to recieve the Eucharist Shalom--Pacem
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