Sep 13, 2005

Pope Benedict to lift 'ban' on Tridentine Mass


POPE Benedict XVI will soon begin to put his Stamp on the Papacy by lifting the near total Ban on the Old Mass as well as trying to restore "a sense of the sacred" to the New Mass, a Church expert says.
The report cites a prediction made by Cambridge scholar Eamon Duffy, author of the highly acclaimed book, Stripping of the Altars. Professor Duffy stated that it is "extremely likely that Pope Benedict will lift the restrictions on the celebration of the Tridentine liturgy".

Go HERE for the IRISH INDEPENDENT NEWS report (registration required).


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh I do hope Pope B16 does lift all restrctions on the Traditional Latin Mass. This would be a great victory for orthodox Catholics and for traditional Catholics who suffered for so long already on the "ban" on the TLM.

I also pray that SSPX and the Vatican reconcile. The Church needs SSPX and SSPX needs the Church.


1:48 AM  
Blogger Daniel Muller said...

This would be a great victory for orthodox Catholics and for traditional Catholics ...

Is this about winning or losing?

I do believe it will be a great spiritual opportunity for all Catholics. And a benefit to educated musicians. As well as a goodwill gesture towards the Eastern rites and the Orthodox.

If it happens.

The Church needs SSPX ...

The Church is indefectible.

8:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why can't we have the Novus Ordo in Latin, as they do at St. Michael's Abbey in Silverado? That needs no special permission. I love being able to hear the priest and making the responses in Latin. The choir I'm in has sung all the parts of the Mass in Latin. This would surely bring back SSPX people. Yeah, I know, Cardinal Mahoney wants to create his own rite.

8:54 AM  
Anonymous Mike said...

Anon -

For me, it's not about the Latin. Sure, I think it would be nice if the Church expressed herself with one language, but I don't think Latin, in and of itself, is a an end. Read a transaltion of the Mass from the 1962 Missal next to the current Rite. The older Rite is a better prayer: it is more focused on God, it is uniquely Catholic (and catholic), and it is catechetically rich (perhaps one of its greatest strenghts compared to the current Rite).


10:50 AM  
Anonymous Suzie said...

To Anonymous, the SSPX would not come back for a Novus Ordo in Latin. Their problem is with the new rite, not the language. As Mike said, compare the two side by side and you'll see obvious differences, especially in the offertory.

3:50 PM  
Blogger Non Sum Dignus said...

Is this about winning or losing?

Daniel, yes it is. If you like, I could post the dismal stats on the decline of everything Catholic (enrolled Seminarians, Religious, priests, number of Catholic schools, etc, etc) since the "wonderful" changes brought about since Vatican II.

V2, and everything it has spawned, has been a losing proposition since it's beginning. Just look at the Catholic(?) Archdiocese of Los Angeles for proof positive.

As well as a goodwill gesture towards the Eastern rites and the Orthodox.

Daniel, since when has there been a need for a "goodwill gesture" towards our Eastern Rite bretheren? We're all Catholics.... just various Rites. As far as the schismatic Eastern Orthodox is concerned... you may be right. When The Church makes movement away from it's flirtation w/ protestantism (and bad Off-Broadway passing itself off as Liturgy), possibly the EO will take us seriously, vice as a joke (just one example; please ref Cardinal Bernadin and his "Parliament of Faiths", and the Greek Orthodox response).

The Church needs SSPX ...

The Church is indefectible.

Absolutely, Holy Mother The Church is indefectible. Possibly it would be more correctly stated that many within The Church needs a long overdue shot of good old fashioned Traditional Catholicism.

Dominus Vobiscum Y'all!

4:37 PM  
Blogger hilary said...

ah, yes. the "Church-is-indefectible" argument stopper. What the doctrine of indefectibility means though, is not that the Church will never need reforming, that nothing will ever go wrong and need fixing. Worst case scenario is that it means when Our Lord returns, there will be at least one believing Catholic left on earth. But we do not look upon this as something to be desired. With the way things have gone since the Council, putting aside any arguments about post hoc ergo propter hoc, the worst case scenario, though an exaggeration, is well under way. He Himself did ask the question, "will there be any faith on earth?" and I am thinking it was unlikely to have been purely rhetorical.

9:46 AM  
Blogger Daniel Muller said...

I could post the dismal stats on the decline of everything Catholic ... since the "wonderful" changes brought about since Vatican II.

Mr. Kevin (I peeked; I was trying to figure out whether you were also from Texas as you used y'all correctly, but I guess not),

I do not accept that it is about winning for some and, by implication, losing for others. However, I do accept that it is about salvation available to all, and in that respect, yes, statistics, especially sacramental statistics, mean something.

Without rehashing it all, and with a different outlook on the situation as I was born just after the closing of II Vatican Council, I would like to point out that society in general has been observably going, erm, "far away" (hasta muy lejos, as they say in Spanish) in a handbasket as well. It seems quite difficult to strain out the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. As a Brooklyn priest friend pointed out some twenty years ago while still in seminary, the 1960's was the wrong time to update anything.

You may say that the traditional orders are flourishing, and I accept and applaud that. However, how much is this a result of the fact that these very people are tenacious survivors whose faith is of utmost importance to them? In 2005, will Joe Lukewarm in the pew necessarily take his faith more seriously if he goes (or, just as likely, decides not to bother to go) to a beautiful, reverent, solemn, efficacious Mass? We may soon find out!

Since when has there been a need for a "goodwill gesture" towards our Eastern Rite brethren?

Well, being Latin Rite, I cannot speak for them, but I understand that it has been a little rough for them in areas of governance and canon law. When was the last time you used the term "eparchy," for example? I never do. Besides often having to endure the scorn of their neighboring Orthodox, they have to live as a relatively small minority in the Church, more and more isolated the further away the typical Mass appears to be less and less related to the typical Divine Liturgy.

the "Church-is-indefectible" argument stopper


My only argument was with the word "needs" with reference to a schismatic group. I think that Kevin clarified his expression the second time that he wrote. Not knowing any SSPX priests or laity personally, I would imagine that the majority of them have a lot to contribute to building up the Church. But the Church as a divine institution does not need them, just as she does not need me.

10:20 AM  
Blogger Daniel Muller said...

Hmm. I think I made a mistake in confusing Kevin ("second time" post according to me) with some anonymous person (Kevin's first post, according to my logic or lack thereof). I sure wish people would at least in some way sign their names to their statements, but this is not my web log.

Anyway, my apologies to Kevin "non sum dignus." My intention is not to put words in anyone's mouth.

10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i imagine joe lukewarm won't like any changes to the NO to make it more like the 1962 TM. it might take too long,the language to flowery, harder to understand, blah blah blah.

3:07 PM  
Blogger Non Sum Dignus said...

Even though I'm a Californian, I had the sense to marry a Southern gal (South Carolina), but anyhow... Yes, salvation is available for all, but as The Church has always taught, there is no salvation outside of The Catholic Church, with invincable ignorance being the only exception. But I guess that the definition of I.I. is another discussion for another time! ;-)

But as you were saying, yes, society has essentially gone to hell in a handbasket since the 60's... and the "spirit" of V2, instead of taking a firm moral stand against it, went merrily along with it.

And as far as Joe Lukewarm is concerned.. The Holy Father is already shooting for a "smaller, purer" Catholicism. So be it.

Also, I think I now understand what you mean by "goodwill gesture" to the Eastern Rites. Point well taken... and I agree to a certain extent.

Lastly, concerning apologizing for putting words in my mouth... no prob!!! We're all friends here!

Dominus Vobiscum Y'all!

Please visit my website "The Catholic Caveman".

4:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will believe it when I see it. How can some prof from Ireland have the inside skinny on this stuff anyways?

9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Be sure to read about the infiltration of freemasonry into the Vatican.


I pray for the Gifts of the Holy Spirit every day to not be duped by Satan.LOL

2:35 AM  

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