It is love, not hate, to oppose dissent
A few people who comment on yours truly's posts here claim that it is uncharitable and, to use typical dissenter cliches, "hating," "judgmental" and "divisive" to warn our fellow Catholics against false teachers and their false teachings.
No doubt, then, these commenters would condemn Pope John Paul II for saying these words in Manila in January 1995: "Genuine love...cannot be separated from truth....UNITY springs from conversion of heart and from sincere ACCEPTANCE of the UNCHANGING PRINCIPLES laid down by Christ for His Church." [my emphases]
And no doubt the commenters would really be mad at Pope John Paul II for the following command that he gave on December 14, 1998: "Set your face resolutely against ALL that might harm the Faith." [my emphasis]
A friend of mine notes that even as dissenters accuse faithful Catholics of being "hate-filled" and "angry," they themselves feel free to vent hatred and anger on the Pope, Church documents, canonized saints and even Scripture verses -- anyone who dares contradict their obviously "infallible" heretical dissenter fantasies.
So once again I say that it is an act of true LOVE to urge false teachers to repent and to warn unsuspecting Catholics about those who seek to lead them astray.
No doubt, then, these commenters would condemn Pope John Paul II for saying these words in Manila in January 1995: "Genuine love...cannot be separated from truth....UNITY springs from conversion of heart and from sincere ACCEPTANCE of the UNCHANGING PRINCIPLES laid down by Christ for His Church." [my emphases]
And no doubt the commenters would really be mad at Pope John Paul II for the following command that he gave on December 14, 1998: "Set your face resolutely against ALL that might harm the Faith." [my emphasis]
A friend of mine notes that even as dissenters accuse faithful Catholics of being "hate-filled" and "angry," they themselves feel free to vent hatred and anger on the Pope, Church documents, canonized saints and even Scripture verses -- anyone who dares contradict their obviously "infallible" heretical dissenter fantasies.
So once again I say that it is an act of true LOVE to urge false teachers to repent and to warn unsuspecting Catholics about those who seek to lead them astray.
posted by Quintero at 8:38 PM
17 Comments:
Quintero:
I do believe Jesus "made a scourge of little cords, he drove them (changers of money) out of the temple." "The disciples remembered that it was written: The zeal of thy house hath eaten me up." (John 2:13-17 DRV).
As the holy Father expressed in his first encyclical, Agape is love grounded in and shaped by faith (Deus Caritas Est, &).
It is zeal and Love of the Holy Catholic Faith that makes us want to take up scourges or whips and drive out those who would sully and drag through the mud those who would make the Bride of Christ appear as a whore, one who will sell itself to whomever to please them. that is is what a whore is, and that is also what a progressive modernist is as well. Love should be shaped by and grounded in the faith so that we can grow holier to Love God. If that means that I seem to hate or appear to be divisive because I suppport what the Holy Father promulgates, or I despise the liturgical abuses I see in the Diocese of Monterey, Then I believe you are severely mistaken. It is love of the Holy Catholic hurch that drives me in my case rather than hatred of you dissenter and corrupters of the faith.
Keep up the good work and the good fight Quintereo. You are a blessing to the Archdiocese. I wish I could do the same in the Diocese of Monterey. Pray we get a good Bishop soon!
Pax Vobiscum!
El Tradicionalista de Salinas
I've read through last couple weeks' posts and comments....and saw some comments which are obvious inspiration for a post like this. Which posts/comments vented hatred and anger on the pope, church documents, canonized saints and scripture? I didn't see any dissent at all from church teaching/doctrine, but I did see critique of your methods....which in a reciprocal stab at sarcasm.....seem at times like an "infallible" heretical fantasy. Dissent of your blog is not dissent of the Catholic church. It is one thing to promote true Catholicism and quite another to use it as a pretext for a smear campaign against an obviously inept Cardinal. The comments on this blog that challenge you....do not ignore St. Paul or early church fathers, I'm sure most of the people who read this blog are somewhat familiar with St. Paul and the early church fathers.....the problem is that you've read St. Paul and the church fathers', they haven't read you. I'm not sure that they would agree with your use of their writings, church documents etc. simply to discredit Mahony....which is not hard to do. If however they advocated the use of church teachings to attack those they didn't like or who were sinners....I would gladly, as you suggest in a previous comment...."go tell them they do not make sense". You make quite a leap to hoist upon yourself the lofty title of a "defender of the faith" and to try to insinuate that disagreeing with you, would be the same as ignoring St. Paul and the early church fathers. I agree with a lot of the things you write, but you and your readers are deluded if you think there is no negativity and hatred on your blog. I don't see how this would inspire people to conversion...rather it seems to just rally those who are already on your side. The rigidity and self righteousness of your approach will be a major stumbling block for you on the "road to Jericho", and has served as reason for some moments in church history that the church herself and posterity don't look kindly on. You seem at times to act as if you and your gang of ecclesial ambulancee chasers have a monopoly on God's grace. Christ did say "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners". The reference to "casting stones" from an earlier comment is very appropriate. There would seem to be an obvious comparison to you and some of your readers' stance with the Pharisees............as Jesus taught....abide by their teaching, but avoid their example. Col. Kurtz your methods are unsound.
anonymous,
Do you have the ability to read souls? You just attempted to read Quintero's. And I would say that the reading comprehension skills demonstrated in your last post are not all that they should be when making such sweeping judgments.
Yes Clayton....I do.....one sweeping judgement deserves another
Anonymous,
I made no sweeping judgment. Only an observation. I did not impute motives. There's a difference.
Being a part of the LA archdiocese I will welcome different leadership. Sundays second reading St Paul tells the flock not to offend Jew, Gentile, or the church in order to save more. In my mind a protest against dissenters effects nothing and ususally turns more people off who would listen to a reasonable defense of the issue.
Would it be uncharitable to tell someone, that taking cocaine is bad for you, or will that be too insensitive or hurtful to warn someone?
Well done, Quintero! This is even more self-serving than usual: equating your own vituperative screeds with the writings of John Paul the Great! Here's the thing, though...John Paul wrote 13 encyclicals, delivered thousands of speeches, preached to millions, on every topic under the sun. You've written several hundred angry, spiteful, often slanderous blog posts about one thing: Cardinal Mahony. You see the difference, right?
No? Shocking. Perhaps some more self-righteous indignation is in order!
Anonymous,
Don't mean to gang up here. Just pointing out an opinion I disagree with you on.
The blog may be argueabley 'negative', but hardly any 'hatetred' from Quintero. Maybe some comments by readers, but not Quintero himself.
Though if that is what you perseve, then maybe you are a bit deluded yourself in your world view. (emphasis on world) Instead of looking through the eyes of a Catholic.
I would like to commend all the various anonymous' for their posts! Great points, especially 2:45pm anonymous....you took the same idea that the first anonymous had and really trimmed the fat and the sarcasm.....and hit the nail right on the head.
Quintero:
I read your blog often. I think you and I are on the same page with respect to many of the issues facing the church. I too am in search of a more traditional liturgy, more faithfulness to the true teachings of the Magesterium, some accountablility from the Cardinal, etc. However, I have to agree with anonymous in one sense. Your overall tone is disturbingly negative; it just doesn't feel very Christian. Yes, passionate adherence to tradition is important. I am as disgusted by liturgicaldancers as the next guy. BUT, I agree with anonymous that a more compassionate,understanding approach might serve traditionally minded Catholics better in the long run. A scourge of little cords is a useful instrument, but it must be used sparingly.
Dear Q-
I have followed your blog from the beginning. Your analysis of the issues facing LA is always on the mark. Let's face it, there's lots of negative stuff going down in LA. As you have said on a number of occasions, you don't make this stuff up. It's out there. You just put it altogether for us and more often than not with a dose of good humor. Your write clearly about the issues but always with good taste. While you have been hard on the Cardinal, you have even called upon people to pray for him. Keep on keeping on.
I only wish I had known about the Catholic Blog awards sooner otherwise I would have nominated you for the Best New Catholic Blog.
You are doing great work. Don't stop.
Dear Anonymous 11:22pm/8:15am,
If you look carefully, you will see that I said "dissenters" vent hatred against the Popes and the Church. I did not say that our commenters have vented hatred; I did say that some commenters use some dissenter terms and that they would object to some Papal quotes.
It is a common debater's tactic to impute attitudes and motives to your opponent that he does not have. To quote St. Paul and the Popes against public dissenters is simply that, to quote them; it is not to liken oneself to them.
And to point out that dissenters dissent is not "hatred," nor is it "negativity," "rigidity" or "self-righteousness." You use name-calling such as that even as you accuse others of negativity.
Only God can judge the state of our souls. We all need His mercy. But that does not mean we should be silent when people make blatant attacks on the Church and the right to life, when glaring problems beset the Church and when unwary Catholics are being told that sins are not sins.
Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation? -Luke 12,51 Says enough for me.
Some people just can't handle the truth. Sometimes even bishops fall away from the truth.
keep up God's work Quintero.
Judgment...many people get the idea that judgment is a sin. Those who point their fingers at others trying to expose error, are in fact, by their own admission and definition of judging, judging.
The only "kind" of judgment that is a sin is to judge the final destination of a soul. That is for God alone because we cannot read souls or know the extent of culpability of the soul.
Fraternal correction is that which springs forth from a spirit of charity and is to be made to anyone who has committed a fault/sin. This is done to enlighten the person so they might not commit the same faults/sins in the future. It is a shame that some want to change the words "fraternal correction" to the word "judgment", and that word taken out of context no less.
Judges sit on benches and judge the criminal. Parents judge whether or nor their child should have certain friends, we judge many situations every day and we must if we want to remain in the state of grace. Judging is charitable when used in the proper sense and not taken out of context.
If we were not able to judge, then how we we be able to judge what sin is?
God bless and keep up the good work
"It is an act of charity to cry out against the wolf when he is among the sheep"
de Sales
"A failure to speak the truth because of a misconceived sense of compassion should not be taken for love. We do not have the right to minimize matters of our own accord, even with the best of intentions. Our task is to be God's witnesses, to be spokesmen of a mercy that saves "even when it shows itself as JUDGMENT" on man's sin."
Pope John Paul II
2002 Letter to Priests
"Sins that are manifest are not to be cleansed by secret correction, but those who sin openly are to be censured openly, that when they are cured by a public reproof, those who imitated their sin my imitate their ammendemnt."
St. Gregory the Great, Pope
'He who neglects to put right what he can correct is undoubtedly guilty of the fault of the person sinning."
St.Leo
"To be silent when you should reprove , is to consent; and we know that the same punishment awaits those who do wrong, and those who consent to it."
St. Bernard
Dear Semper Fi Catholic,
Thank you very much for explaining about fraternal correction and true judgment, and for supplying the very apt quotations from the Popes and the Saints.
Were you, or are you, a Marine? If so, thank you for serving our Country and for being Semper Fi.
God bless you, too.
Quintero, I realize this is quite an old post, but just in case you get email notification of comments, here are my $0.02:
The "charity and tolerance" crowd has obviously never read St. John Chrysostom, who said that blasphemers need to be smitten in the face.
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