Check out this exchange...
Below is an anonymous comment on the recent post "Pope speaks; when will we hear an echo," and following it is my rejoinder. I'm reprinting them here, as a new post, because of the importance of the issues they bring up.
Anonymous said...
When the pontiff speaks of the "defense of life- from conception to natural end- wherever it is threatened, violated or trampled"...he must also be meant to mean not only abortion...but issues such as Catholic social teachings and Catholic just war doctrine. Certainly if Villaraigossa can be accused by you of attacking life via his pro choice stance......certainly there are many other politicians/public officials on the right and left that are attacking life via support for unjust wars and complete disregard for Catholic social teachings. How is it we never hear of those?......."conception to natural end" would seem to broaden the spectrum as to what could be considered an attack on life....well beyond the abortion issue. But, I suppose the right and the left have their platitudes they must hit...right? How about focusing a little more on charity, compassion etc. instead of just hurling negativity and hatred...which surely isn't keeping with the teachings of Christ. Meanwhile, I'll make sure not to immerse myself in LA's waters for fear they may be contaminated with traces of birth control pills,....you on the otherhand...keep fightin' them windmills.
12:18 PM
Quintero said...
Dear Anonymous, It is a false and vile charge to say that asking a Catholic politician to stop backing the dismemberment of MILLIONS of BABIES, and begging his bishop to admonish him, is not focusing on "compassion and charity" and is "hurling negativity and hatred."
Letting politicians off the hook to continue supporting the killings of MILLIONS of BABIES, as you do, is NOT focusing on "compassion and charity." And making false charges against people who speak in defense of the helpless babies surely IS "hurling negativity and hatred."
This Holy Father and his predecessors of happy memory naturally decry all attacks on human life. Just as naturally, they also apply the Catholic principle of proportionality to those attacks.
Our U.S. bishops (even the late Cardinal Bernardin) have said that aborting tiny, helpless infants is the PRIMARY human rights and social justice priority. In their pro-life statements, our bishops even say that politicians who claim to be in line with the Church on social justice issues but are for aborting babies cast doubt on their own sincerity about the other issues.
Being anti-abortion is not a matter of "left and right." Catholics who support pro-abortion politicians always make lying charges against pro-lifers, claiming falsely that pro-lifers are automatically for war and the death penalty and are against social spending.
And no, saving God's precious preborn babies and helping their moms is NOT "tilting at windmills"; it is stopping along the road to Jericho and helping the helpless whom the priests ignored and would not help.
9:10 PM
Anonymous said...
When the pontiff speaks of the "defense of life- from conception to natural end- wherever it is threatened, violated or trampled"...he must also be meant to mean not only abortion...but issues such as Catholic social teachings and Catholic just war doctrine. Certainly if Villaraigossa can be accused by you of attacking life via his pro choice stance......certainly there are many other politicians/public officials on the right and left that are attacking life via support for unjust wars and complete disregard for Catholic social teachings. How is it we never hear of those?......."conception to natural end" would seem to broaden the spectrum as to what could be considered an attack on life....well beyond the abortion issue. But, I suppose the right and the left have their platitudes they must hit...right? How about focusing a little more on charity, compassion etc. instead of just hurling negativity and hatred...which surely isn't keeping with the teachings of Christ. Meanwhile, I'll make sure not to immerse myself in LA's waters for fear they may be contaminated with traces of birth control pills,....you on the otherhand...keep fightin' them windmills.
12:18 PM
Quintero said...
Dear Anonymous, It is a false and vile charge to say that asking a Catholic politician to stop backing the dismemberment of MILLIONS of BABIES, and begging his bishop to admonish him, is not focusing on "compassion and charity" and is "hurling negativity and hatred."
Letting politicians off the hook to continue supporting the killings of MILLIONS of BABIES, as you do, is NOT focusing on "compassion and charity." And making false charges against people who speak in defense of the helpless babies surely IS "hurling negativity and hatred."
This Holy Father and his predecessors of happy memory naturally decry all attacks on human life. Just as naturally, they also apply the Catholic principle of proportionality to those attacks.
Our U.S. bishops (even the late Cardinal Bernardin) have said that aborting tiny, helpless infants is the PRIMARY human rights and social justice priority. In their pro-life statements, our bishops even say that politicians who claim to be in line with the Church on social justice issues but are for aborting babies cast doubt on their own sincerity about the other issues.
Being anti-abortion is not a matter of "left and right." Catholics who support pro-abortion politicians always make lying charges against pro-lifers, claiming falsely that pro-lifers are automatically for war and the death penalty and are against social spending.
And no, saving God's precious preborn babies and helping their moms is NOT "tilting at windmills"; it is stopping along the road to Jericho and helping the helpless whom the priests ignored and would not help.
9:10 PM
posted by Quintero at 8:26 PM
7 Comments:
PQ,
Seems that you have dug right into a raw nerve of a Child of Relativism. Your written word version of a dental pick jammed straight into the abscessed cavity of Theological Indifferentism is a thing of pure joy.
Keep up the good work!
If "Anonymous" is a true Vatican II Catholic then he/she would recall, and affirm, as Bishop Olmsted reminded Catholic Answers Live listeners today, that abortion is an "unspeakable crime" (Gaudium et spes #51)
Thank you, venerable Aussie! And amen!
I am not the same Anonymous who originally posted. Although I agree with what you said, he did make some points most people ignore.
Abortion truly is evil and it is right to speak of it as the PRIMARY human rights violation of our day.
At the same time, it does seem that people on the "right" quickly discount John Paul's condemnation of the war in Iraq; white-wash the American involvement in the war; and ignore the human rights violations America is responsible for throughout the world.
In fact, I CANNOT FIND A SINGLE POST ON YOUR BLOG where you ever mention any of these issues. They just don't seem important to you - you don't seem to care at all about them. I don't doubt your sincerity, I believe this may be an unconscious move. But I do think there is a tendency for pro-lifers to affiliate too closely with one political party or to put political idealogy over other concerns.
We need to be one hundred percent pro-life and we can never vote for any politician who promotes abortion. We should even be suspicious of anyone who even fails to condemn it outright. What cowardliness! But we also should have a huge problem voting for people who support a war in which civilians are routinely killed; for those who callously disregard the wisdom of (future) saints like John Paul II.
Other areas could also be mentioned - what of other charitable activities like caring for the homeless or health care? How for example can we be pro-life and not support health care reform. We need to ban abortion - but we also have to provide aid for those children who will be born so parents won't be able to use financial concerns as an excuse to have an abortion. Hilary's program was clearly wrong. But I think idealogical concerns about "big government" are sometimes misplaced. Surely Catholic social teaching tells us that the Republican model of "rugged individualism" is wrong - just as socialism on the other side is. Let's not be reactionary. Let's be Catholic.
Dear Anonymous 12:06,
In speaking to the protectors and defenders of the little ones - "Lets not be reactionary. Let's be Catholic." - Thank you for the sweet little lecture during the largest Holocaust United States has ever known.
Rita
Dear Not the Original Anonymous,
I can answer your concerns. The pro-life movement and "people on the right" are not synonymous! There are many pro-abortion conservatives and Republicans, and there are liberal pro-lifers.
Second, even if all pro-lifers were "on the right," which they are not, you must admit that both major political parties support massive social spending. Under George W. Bush, social spending is far above what it was under Clinton. By your standards, Clinton must have hated the poor.
So if both major parties support social spending, we cannot use social spending as an excuse to vote for pro-abortion politicians.
Also, there is a good reason I do not write about "other issues."
I have heard the question many a time -- "But what about all the other issues besides abortion?" Or, "Abortion is only one issue."
If you consider the number of the dead that we are talking about, you will realize that asking about issues besides aborting babies is like asking someone in Sudan or Uganda, "But what about all the other issues besides genocide? Genocide is only one issue."
After all, our Roman Catholic Church teaches us that every preborn baby at any stage of growth is every bit as human as anyone already born (see Donum Vitae). Preborn babies are PEOPLE. With abortion in the USA, we are talking about 47 million dead PEOPLE -- slain by abortionist profiteers since the late Sixties.
We each need to ask ourselves: Do we truly believe preborn babies are people, or don't we? And if we believe preborn babies are people, do we need to act like it?
No "other issues" involve anywhere near as many victims as abortion. Plus, the tiny victims of abortion are doubly victimized; not only are they killed (and killed in terrible ways), they are denied the sacrament of Baptism.
This is why you do not see me bringing up "other issues" here. It has to be all right for someone, somewhere, to concentrate on the by-far-the-most-serious issue and not dissipate time and energy trying to cover all issues.
No one, after all, asks anti-death penalty groups to cover all issues. Especially, no one ever asks them to fight abortions! Yet Pope John Paul II, in Brazil, called abortions the most unjust EXECUTIONS of all.
And once again, may I say that there is no call, and no need, for anyone to lecture pro-lifers about the death penalty and social spending and war and anything else. Such lecturing proceeds from the unwarranted assumptions that all pro-lifers are alike and all are conservative Republicans! Sorry, but you would never catch pro-lifers voting for any pro-abortion candidate of any party.
People fail to grasp that the pro-life movement is not about politics. It is about saving babies. But, believing that all pro-lifers are conservatives, the "what about other issues" people shun us.
Sadly, when pro-lifers are saving babies by praying the Rosary at abortion mills, some "other issues" people seem to be telling the babies, "Sorry, kids, I'd rather see you dead than have me be 'caught dead' being seen with the reactionaries who are trying to save you. They are un-Catholic and lack compassion, while I am full of compassion." I trust you are not like that, Anonymous!
Dear Venerable Aussie, Thank you for bringing up a really great point (and for including the source of the quote!).
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