Did your parish observe Respect Life Sunday, Oct. 1?
Ole Q is running a survey here. Hope you can take part. (You don't have to write a lengthy report.)
Did your parish observe Respect Life Sunday on Oct. 1?
If so, how? Activities, sermon, bulletin insert, pulpit announcement, other?
Did your parish play Cardinal Mahony's recorded "Yes on Prop. 85" message?
Thank you in advance for responding!
Did your parish observe Respect Life Sunday on Oct. 1?
If so, how? Activities, sermon, bulletin insert, pulpit announcement, other?
Did your parish play Cardinal Mahony's recorded "Yes on Prop. 85" message?
Thank you in advance for responding!
posted by Quintero at 11:45 PM
26 Comments:
Holy Family in Glendale did not. However, in their defense, they did have two other things going on that day...but neither was as important.
At the Mary Star of the Sea (San Pedro) Sunday 5:15pm mass, the homily was split between Respect Life and October being the month of Mary. The message from our distinguished archbishop was not played, read or mentioned.
Two things:
OLA in Claremont (a neighboring parish) had an insert on the propopsition at the Mass I attended, but nothing else.
HF in Glendale has a strong pro-life stance interwoven in all that they do.
Hey MJM
I'm registered at OLA... would really prefer Guasti or Our Lady of Lourdes in Montclair but they're so far...St Joe's in Upland is pretty good but Holy Name of Mary in La Verne where I live is not really... oh well
I got married at St. Madeline's in Pomona. Also not so good-
I'm not surprised about OLA's behavior... if you ever wanna see a bunch of hippies Claremont's the place. Last time I was there a deacon married some couple in the middle of Mass. Why not?
The same deacon told us that Jesus's one great commandment was to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and your neighbor as yourself. I knew where he was going with that... straight to the provide bounteous hospitality to illegals party line. That was annoying.
Not as annoying tho as the teen Mass I attended the week before where I saw more teen lingerie than a Victoria's Secret catalogue and one such exemplar of piety was dispensing the cup in a short skirt with sunglasses on her head.
/rant off
Dave,
Sorry you were subjected to witnessing a marriage and hearing the Great Commandment at that hippy church. It's terrible that you were exposed to a sacrament and had to hear about love of God and neighbor. These sorts of abuses must be stamped out so that we can get to the real business of Catholicism, the unquestioning support of whatever the Republican party demands of us. Long live war, torture and the American way! Hooah!
Whichever Anonymous the 11:16 AM is, YOU ARE SICK!
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Anonymous 11:16 AM,
Furthermore, when have you ever seen Republican partisan politics advocated on this site, praising the work of some good Republicans, probably, but advocacy NO.
For your information, I am currently the President of the Anaheim Republican Assembly, I was once the Nominee of the G.O.P. for Congress, and even I do not push partisn politics on this site! In fact, I have attacked our so called Catholic Republican Governor on this site, and I know others have as well.
This site would probably also praise the good that some Democrat politicians have done if we could find some. Are you sure you are not Mahony?
Kenneth M. Fisher
HAha
Obviously we're dealing with devout piety here...
FYI
THE (1) Great Commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all you heart, all your mind, and all your soul.
As no less an authority than -erm- Jesus Christ said "The SECOND is like unto it: love your neighbor as yourself."
That was my point which my 8-year old grasped... oh well
As to whether a lay person can really administer the sacraments well I find that disturbing... certainly Catholics of a half century ago were convinced the answer was clearly no- not my call I just report the facts
Dave:
You only provide further proof that so many of the opinions expressed on this blog are based on ignorance yet claim "orthodoxy."
1. The Great Commandment includes both love of God and love of neighbor. Look it up in the Catechism you people are always telling everybody else to read.
2. Deacons are clergy, not lay people. You can look that up in the Catechism as well.
Have to agree with anonymous, quit singing the orthodoxy song, and read up on your catechism. The church today is not the Catholic church, you just need to do your homework.
"The church today is not the Catholic church, you just need to do your homework."
Um, what the deuce is that supposed to mean?
Dave,
Both Anonymouses are right, A Deacon is an Ordained Minister as was St. Francis of Assisi, and can administer some of the Sacraments, including Matrimony. He cannot consecrate or forgive sins. I am not sure about Anointing of the sick, but I think not.
However I believe the Rubrics forbid a Marriage during a regular scheduled Mass. Maybe some else can bring further light on that.
Kenneth M. Fisher
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Well about the Deacon thang I'm NOT a Catholic so I apologize.
However
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it,Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Here Jesus emphatically states TWICE that this is TWO commandments. Y'all can believe whatever you choose but I prefer the authority of Christ in this matter.
Oh Red Baron do you not see ICU???
I'll spend MY time reading the Bible thank you and when I feel I've done enough of THAT I'll study the Catechism. YMMV
Dear Anonymous 11:16,
As I read Dave's original comment, he is objecting to a marriage taking place in the middle of a regularly scheduled Mass. Obviously, he is not against the Sacrament of Marriage.
As I also read his original comment, he is objecting to "where the deacon was going" with his comments about love, namely, implying that anyone who is not for "bounteous hospitality for illegals" is violating the command to love God and neighbor. Again obviously, he is not against love.
It is a tired and totally phony liberal tactic to accuse non-liberals of lacking love. The truth is, liberals talk about how loving they are, yet very often they stereotype and insult conservatives and pro-lifers.
Liberals also show ZERO love for preborn babies and their moms by never fighting abortion.
I think Dave is a good guy and you could have been fairer to him.
Ha ha Baron if that wasn't you it was a cheap attempt at a joke and I apologize...
I DID as suggested study the CAtechism and I found that:
My Saint Joseph's Catechism #189 sez that the Great Commandment does NOT include the neighbor thang. Also the Vatican archive version sez the same thing:
PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
CHAPTER TWO
"YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"
Jesus said to his disciples: "Love one another even as I have loved you."1
2196 In response to the question about the first of the commandments, Jesus says: "The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."2
Opposed to marriage? I married in a Catholic Church. I guess I should clarify that I just wish there was a C-church within a reasonable distance from me that I could really stand behind doctrinally. The one closer than OLA is WORSE.
I'm certainly no Catholic and it offends me when Catholics know less about Catholic doctrine than I do; especially when they're expressing their ignorance or intentional perfidy in front of my kids. Living in L.A. tho one begins to get very used to this occurring tho-
Go to OLA yourself. See and judge for yourself. And, if you're a responsible parent, ask yourself what you would perceive to be the effect of exposing them to what you experience.
Despite all I read about the Cathedral I there recently did this very thing and had certain different conclusions than some expressed here.
So what? I'm not here to fight or try to make people think I'm anything. I have an extraordinarily flawed character. Aww what's the use YMMV-
Why are some people always looking for a loophole that will allow them to think that loving their neighbor is somehow separate and lesser than loving God? The two cannot be divided.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2055 When someone asks him, "Which commandment in the Law is the greatest?" Jesus replies: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. and a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets."
The Decalogue must be interpreted in light of
this twofold yet single commandment of love, the fullness of the Law: the commandments: "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
2196 In response to the question about the first of the commandments, Jesus says: "The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' the second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
The apostle St. Paul reminds us of this: "He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. the commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,' and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others. One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.
2074 Jesus says: "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing."33 The fruit referred to in this saying is the holiness of a life made fruitful by union with Christ. When we believe in Jesus Christ, partake of his mysteries, and keep his commandments, the Savior himself comes to love, in us, his Father and his brethren, our Father and our brethren. His person becomes, through the Spirit, the living and interior rule of our activity. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
There is no rubric forbidding the celebration of a marriage at a regularly schedule Sunady liturgy. In fact, this practice can reinforce the fact that marriage is a public commitment undertaken in a church as a sign that the married couple are taking on a new role in the Christian community. This is why marriages are required to be celebrated in a church building. Furthermore, it can be a way to ensure simplicity and dignity of the wedding celebration, which is too often turned into a grand spectacle honoring the bride more than the sacrament. Seems to me it would be a good thing if more weddings were simply the bride and groom standing before the Sunday assembly and making their vows without spending tens of thousands of dollars on a show.
There is good reason for celebrating the sacraments within the context of Sunday liturgy because it underscores the role of the community in all sacraments. The rubrics for Baptism and Anointing of the Sick encourage their celebration during Mass, even on a Sunday. The rubrics for funerals recommend that they be scheduled at a time when the greatest number of parishioners possible may participate, which in many parishes is interpreted as a regularly scheduled weekday Mass. Reception of first communion is celebrated in many parishes at a regularly scheduled Sunday liturgy.
The sacraments (with the exception of individual confession as part of the first form of penance) are not private rites to be celebrated only with family and friends; they are public rites to be celebrated by the enire parish community.
St. Dorothy's in Glendora did it this Sunday, October 8.
Hey MJM 6th & G
Looks like you're searching for a church to call home... we SETTLED on OLA 'cuz all the others were too far to really have any non-Mass participation in (like Altar server for the boy, etc...)
What an unpleasant compromise-
Y'all can have marriages whenever you want- I'm fine with the reasons to have it during Mass as far as that goes. Thinking I objected to it was a mischaracterization- I was more dubious about the Deacon performing it actually but if it's legit then I have nothing to object to.
However to say that we should love people as much as we love God seems very wrong to me; seems to me our love for God should be that thing in life that we should be very last to surrender; this approach I blame for the reorientation of the flock AWAY from God and TOWARDS man. In theological terms we've lost our vertical (towards God) focus and replaced it with a horizontal (towards man) focus.
Y'all are forced (by the nature of your Catholic faith) really to believe what you're told to believe whereas I am required to make the best sense of what I read/know that I can.
I'm not convinced which approach is correct, incorrect or more or less correct. I try mine and you try yours and I earnestly hope I'll see you on the other side of this veil of tears...
Dear Anonymous 1:22 p.m.,
Thank you for the extensive quotes from the Catechism.
Dear Dave 1:51 p.m.,
Thank you for your comments about the celebration of marriage during regularly scheduled Masses.
I think you would agree that the pastor should use the bulletin to alert parishioners ahead of time about special events such as that, in case they are legitimately on a tight time schedule that day, and that he or the celebrant of the Mass should explain the situation to the congregation in attendance.
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for the news about St. Dorothy parish in Glendale!
Dear Dave,
Well, remember what Jesus tells us in St. Matthew 25, "Whatever you do to the least of My brethren, that you do unto Me."
Also, I should mention that we are not "forced to believe what we are told." We freely assent, based on faith, reason and Christ's own words, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church." No Catholic believes anything that does not make sense. The Holy Spirit guides the Church, as Jesus has promised.
"Making sense" of what one reads, or individual interpretation, is one of the reasons there are thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations that disagree with each other about many, many Scripture passages.
Dave,
If you are reading the King James Bible, you are reading a Bible that had books intentionally removed from it by Luther and other so called reformers, and you are reading a Bible that completely changed verses such as Luke 1:28 the Annuniciation, check it out!
Re: "forced to believe what we are told.", this would sure be news to St. Athanasius the Great. He was told by Pope Liberius to believe in the heresy of Arianism. Thank God he did not listen or we would not have St. Athanasius the Great, Doctor of the Church! Hardly anyone now knows the name of Liberius, but many know the name of Athanasius!
Kenneth M. Fisher
Dear Kenneth,
Thank you for supplying some good points about Sacred Scripture!
Also, here is a link to the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Pope Liberius (sorry it is not clickable):
http://www.catholicity.com/encyclopedia/l/liberius,pope.html
Here is a key paragraph from the Catholic Encyclopedia entry:
"It should be carefully noted that the question of the fall of Liberius is one that has been and can be freely debated among Catholics. No one pretends that, if Liberius signed the most Arian formulæ in exile, he did it freely; so that no question of his infallibility is involved. It is admitted on all sides that his noble attitude of resistance before his exile and during his exile was not belied by any act of his after his return, that he was in no way sullied when so many failed at the Council of Rimini, and that he acted vigorously for the healing of orthodoxy throughout the West from the grievous wound. If he really consorted with heretics, condemned Athanasius, or even denied the Son of God, it was a momentary human weakness which no more compromises the papacy than does that of St. Peter."
And here is a link (again, sorry it is not clickable) to Warren Carroll's defense of the papacy, in his discussion of Pope Liberius:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/popeguil.htm
Dr. Carroll says, "It is true that St. Athanasius was condemned by Pope Liberius though he was the leader of the defenders of orthodoxy against Arianism at the time. Pope Liberius was a weak man (the first Pope after St. Peter never honored as a saint) and he was imprisoned and probably had been tortured to force him to support the Arian heresy, at the time he condemned St. Athansius. He was therefore obviously acting under duress, as St. Athanasius pointed out when he refused to accept the validity of the excommunication. Though Pope Liberius did condemn St. Athanasius under heavy pressure from his captors, he refused to sign a clearly Arian statement of faith, but did sign an equivocal statement which could be interpreted either in an orthodox or an Arian sense."
Dr. Carroll also says, "I deny that any Pope was ever a heretic, have researched each case where that is claimed, and will be glad to answer and refute any claim that any Pope ever committed himself or called upon the faithful to hold any heretical belief."
With all due respect to the Historian William Carrol
In the first place I wrote that Pope Liberius had repented before he died.
The sad fact is that he did, under duress or not, temporarily become an Arian, thus at that time a heretic. Thank God he repented of this before he died.
Kenneth M. Fisher
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